[Irishteacher]

They are online now, wonder if they care to defend themselves?

I personally dont think i have unfairly attacked the company, and feel my argument is both reasoned and justified, and as has been ratified by yourself Gareth, They Dont list ATR parts. So despite the whole silliness of the some of the posting, and agreeing with the fact that their ad is not harming anyone, it isnt helping us either.


God i love a good debate, its so stimulating for the mind.

This post has been edited by Irishteacher: 28 January 2008 - 07:55 PM

[Little Legs]

Irishteacher, on Jan 28 2008, 07:51 PM, said:

They are online now, wonder if they care to defend themselves?

I personally dont think i have unfairly attacked the company, and feel my argument is both reasoned and justified, and as has been ratified by yourself Gareth, They Dont list ATR parts. So despite the whole silliness of the some of the posting, and agreeing with the fact that their ad is not harming anyone, it isnt helping us either.

Some of their threads do help ATR only owners, some don't. They may well help owners of 2nd Honda cars and they also, at some point, may feel like offering deals on ATR parts in the future. Lets not cut our noses off to spite our faces, thnk of the bigger picture.

I'm baffled as to how out of hand this tiny issue has become, talk about a mountian out of a mole hill.

[obriener2054]

can see from the recent ad in reference to the AEM's, i was a copy and paste job used in other forums too,

i totally understand what paul is saying but albeit maybe he did it in the wrong manner, publicly but as the rules say we the members have the right to do so privately

"
If a bad reputation builds for a particular dealer they will be removed, any issues you may have please talk to the dealer in the first instance if this line of communication fails then please contact myself but keep all correspondence private - please do NOT air your opinion publicly on the forum."

the only thing paul was wrong about is the way he said it publicly IMO

all my opinion on this discussion

[Little Legs]

and as if by magic D2M reply offering club/forum deals:


http://www.accordr.o...showtopic=13044

[D2M Tuning]

Hopefully we've explained things now as mentioned we've posted these threads across a number of forums, single model included, and to add we've had no negative remarks on those, but I believe rapidseven had a go at us previously when we first came on here just wondering if there's anything we've personally done to get on your bad side ?

In future if we post up special deals we'll lean toward being more specific, but if members here don't want to take advantage of our prices/deals, then I'll ask Ed to remove our account as this is the only forum where we've received this kind of attention, and I must admit it's dissappointing

Thanks.

Rob

[Little Legs]

Please don't do that Rob.

Its dealt with now and hopefully the culprits are feeling suitably silly.

[planet_page™]

I'm dissapointed with some members on here, as I'm away I have limited access to the net and people are getting very easily provoked and to be honest a lot of it from my view seems to be over zealous tripe.

I realise that this is a one mark owners club and as such you generally think products that are offered to us are of an ATR disposition.

However this forum exists for everyone, whether they own a Ford or a Ferrari, and I do stand by this as members will sell and migrate but they still will post on here making it the forum that it is, and IMO offers exist for everyone from all marques.

Here endeth the comment

[EdLeake]

planet_page™, on Jan 28 2008, 10:45 PM, said:

I'm dissapointed with some members on here

I'm in full agreement with you on that one.

In fact I'm not even sure why this has become a public debate, the 'approach a mod in private and confidence' seems to be sidestepped every single time there's an issue.

I understand the frustration from certain people but traders are very limited on what they can directly offer the ATR owner, that's the position of having a rare car.

However there's no excuse for ignoring rules and as I've asked before any problems and/or concerns should be raised in private first, it's of no benefit for a forum member to post on a traders thread, the same rule applies to individuals trading on here.

Posts that breach this rule are generally removed, this isn't a personal attack just the fact a rule hasn't been adhered to.

I'm not suggesting don't have an opinion, quite the opposite, just go through the proper channels before venting and it'll make life easier - to that effect I'm quite happy to answer questions via PMs on this subject.

[EdLeake]

I didn't close this topic?

Anyway, after my morning StarBucks and cigarette (aka my thinking time) and careful consideration I've decided to go with the general consensus of this topic, let me clarify that statement and the situation.

I believe that if a trader wishes to trade on this forum they need to offer our members relevant products that offer value for money, therefore as suggested we should restrict trader posts to that of products relevant to ATR owners only.

I'm sure the forum traders will understand and appreciate this stance.

I've re-opened this topic, if you agree or disagree then post away (Traders included) - the rules will be amended and trader topics cleared down to suit the final deliberations within.

[snowie]

having read this thread i agree with ed and paul, relevant items to the atr only should be posted by traders.
if people have a second car(such as me) that isn't an atr, there are plenty of sites/forums on the web for their cars.
just my thoughts.

[tumbleweed]

ed i do agree with parts being offered are atr relevence hence why i added that r7 had a valid point
not sure if i agree on how he goes about it sometimes but thats his nature i guess

it does seem that as soon as a trader post something people jump stright down there throats

i dont want this place ending up like h r did etc
every trader has the right to offer us a deal for atr stuff and sould not have to worry about being flamed

sorry to offend anyone

[Irishteacher]

EdLeake, on Jan 29 2008, 12:20 PM, said:

I believe that if a trader wishes to trade on this forum they need to offer our members relevant products that offer value for money, therefore as suggested we should restrict trader posts to that of products relevant to ATR owners only.

It would appear that common sense prevails

[TIMBOLAND]

snowie, on Jan 29 2008, 01:02 PM, said:

having read this thread i agree with ed and paul, relevant items to the atr only should be posted by traders.
if people have a second car(such as me) that isn't an atr, there are plenty of sites/forums on the web for their cars.
just my thoughts.

totaly agree mate
however in my defence as i was one of the people that voiced an opinion, that is all i ever did was just agree with what paul "rapid7" and ali "h22" had already said which i believe was a fair comment.
however since then D2M have posted up a clearer response to parts that they can get for our ATR's which i have duly acknowledged.
i understand and apologise for not being very tactful ie: openly discussing my point of view and as no malice was intended towards D2M but i was merely pointing out the obvious with their thread.
with that in mind in the future if i have any concerns over a thread or a post i will deal with it via pm to the moderators

This post has been edited by TIM ATR: 29 January 2008 - 06:40 PM

[Al.]

Perhaps we should all be reminded of the 'Guidelines' (hate the word Rules) for activity on this forum, then ensuring that both newcomers and oldies are fully aware of how best to approach concerns over forum members activities ..............












........................or is that just too logical for everyone

[obriener2054]

surely we can always ask the traders about products for other cars that me may own anyway if we require something:agree:

[Paul™]

Common sense has prevailed in my honest opinion.

Just to clarify the whole reason behind this post, and I stated it before but I am going to once again for the final time.

I NEVER meant to have a personal dig or have an issue at certain individual traders, like Little Legs believes.

I dont feel that I have to apologise to any trader, other than the ones who I have apolgised to previously, as I was quick to realise I was wrong, and I dont have a problem in eating my words and admitting it.

I ALWAYS have the members and forums best interests at heart, whether my opinions and posts are preceived right or wrong.

My reason behind this thread, and why I posted it is purely for the majority of members, and for the benefit of the forum, and is as follows.

I was one of the first members on a once brilliant forum. It was very similar to accordr.org where as the members were all mates and everyone had a great time together either on the forum or in person, this forum reminds me of how good forums used to be, ran by purely enthuiasts who love there cars.

However, it became a breeding ground for traders and people touting for work, and with hundreds and hundreds of items for sale it became a bidding war and slanging matches were common place.

In no time at all the forum just mass developed into threads - " I want more BHP " - " I raced and Evo " - " My car is better than yours " - " My 400bhp monster " etc etc.

The forum was basically for a circle of buddies who's only concearn was there posts and the people that surrounded them, and sod everyone else. The circle of buddies was basically a trader that came on and developed into having a share on the forum.

I was a part of this circle, and I didnt like the direction the forum was going, and in one particular thread, a trader/tuner was quick to take a members money promising him massive bhp, and the member was vunerable to part with his money at the thought of it. Personally I never liked the idea, as technically it wasnt possible for the motor to be in the slightest reliable for the priced amount.

I stated my opinions, and I was receiving personal phone calls asking to keep my gob shut as the trader wanted the business and it was the customers choice to have the work done.

Me being me and never being a dog on a lead or to save face, I posted my thoughts after the car that had been tuned detonated and had a severe engine fire.

I got banned off the forum for having an opinion, and the trader some how managed to worm his way out of the problem, this thread and countless others got removed.

I hung around under a different user name for a while, and the forum imho just collapsed into nothing but a money making machine, with gods knows how many traders, selling everything from Alfa to VW, and was just a forum for nothing but bragging rights and who ever has the most money.

The forum just wasnt the same, and several members chalked fcuk on it to be honest, as you if you want in the "group" it was hard to interact.

On the ATR forum, my opinions are sometimes come across very arrogant, and in person I am not like some people precieve me to be. I wish I was more educated to try and learn to type with a tone of voice, but unfortunately im not. Many posts I read I often think to myself why I cant put my opinion over in this manner, I applaud certain members ways of talking to others, I sort of admire it in a way and wished I could emulate it a little.

Some people may not like me, thats fair enough, but I cant please everyone all at the same time.

Anyway, I just feel its my duty to say certains things on certain threads, and i'll continue to do so, albeit toned down a little, but i'll never not call a spade a spade when I feel its needed.

[Little Legs]

Paul,

as long as you've learnt to address fellow members in a proper and decent manner then justice has prevailed.

The posts from D2M have never been the issue from us, your conduct is the issue which has been clouded through the D2M thread.

We will contiue to delete abusive posts, as we always have done and always will do.

[Little Legs]

I've removed both comments, see below - Ed.

This post has been edited by EdLeake: 29 January 2008 - 07:57 PM

[EdLeake]

Paul, educated or not, please learn to use a little tact.

It's very easy to misconstrue an individuals intention in writing, especially something posted in relative haste on a forum - let's be honest we can't sit here all day perfectly scribing each folly!

The above comment in reponse to Gareth is simply not appropriate. I'm going to stick my neck out and say I actually agree that your 'approach' to the D2M post was wrong and not in the spirit of the forum.

Like I said earlier the simplest and most effective first move should have been to message me, you know you'll always get a fair and well informed response. If in the unlikely situation we don't come to a mature and agreeable solution then I'm more than happy for things to be debated openly, rationally and with maturity.

We could have easily resolved this without the brash verbatim clearly evident in some recent posts.

Yes I appreciate you're trying to do the right thing and I'm not knocking that one bit, I just feel that you could be a little wiser with your choice of wording. I don't want to sound condescending by typing (saying) this but I know your heart's in the right place, just try and present that positive aspect of your persona in your posts.

[Paul™]

EdLeake, on Jan 29 2008, 07:56 PM, said:

Paul, educated or not, please learn to use a little tact.

It's very easy to misconstrue an individuals intention in writing, especially something posted in relative haste on a forum - let's be honest we can't sit here all day perfectly scribing each folly!

The above comment in reponse to Gareth is simply not appropriate. I'm going to stick my neck out and say I actually agree that your 'approach' to the D2M post was wrong and not in the spirit of the forum.

Like I said earlier the simplest and most effective first move should have been to message me, you know you'll always get a fair and well informed response. If in the unlikely situation we don't come to a mature and agreeable solution then I'm more than happy for things to be debated openly, rationally and with maturity.

We could have easily resolved this without the brash verbatim clearly evident in some recent posts.

Yes I appreciate you're trying to do the right thing and I'm not knocking that one bit, I just feel that you could be a little wiser with your choice of wording. I don't want to sound condescending by typing (saying) this but I know your heart's in the right place, just try and present that positive aspect of your persona in your posts.

Understood totally Ed.

If theres a next time ( and I hope not ) I will contact you first

Thanks.

This post has been edited by rapidseven™: 29 January 2008 - 08:01 PM